Minister for tribal affairs and panchayati raj V. Kishore Chandra Deo is determined to speak out for the rights of tribals even if they come in conflict with corporate houses. Excerpts from an interview:
Q: Given the amount of controversy that the Posco steel plant has evoked, do you think it should be relocated?
A: Land should be handed over to corporations or other groups only after the full consent of the local people has been obtained. They also have a stake in the land and cannot be forced out.
Q: In the case of Posco and other large projects where there has been a great deal of protest both from tribals and non tribals, what do you feel is the solution?
A: The state government needs to provide these industries with alternate land. After all, this is not the only land available in the country. When you talk development and exclude a certain section of the society because they are poor and cannot lay establishment to their claims, then it is time the situation is reversed and we begin to take care of their interests. We (government) are committed to social change, especially since corporate interests cannot override people’s interests.
Q: This would create a difficult situation for the government?
A: I am not against corporates. But governments also need to have social responsibility. The tribals have been deprived of their land for centuries. The forest dwellers are the original occupants of the forests. Notification of these forests took place much later. The Indian Forest Act was passed in 1927, but these dwellers had been living here for hundreds of years before that. My priority is to see that the Forest Right Act of 2006 is properly implemented.
Q: But one of the key reasons why there is so much protest taking place is because the tribals see themselves being deprived of basics amenities, such as water and land. To cite an example: Large corporations in these areas are known to have taken over all the water of areas adjoining their industries.
A: I agree. Water is very important. Before a project is sanctioned, certain hydrological tests must be undertaken to ensure that local people do not lose their water sources. These are certain prerequisites which must be seen through.
Q: Another matter of concern is that even when a R&R package is offered to tribals, most of the time it remains unimplemented?
A: My answer to this would be a little different. Even if the tribals and gram sabhas agree to an R&R package, I would first question the basis of this R&R. My point is that the tribals must first be given pattas. At present, they have no record or proof. This (ownership) must be finalised before a R& R package is acceptable. It is only then that they can decide what kind of R&R they want to settle for.
Q: But the implementation of the Forest Rights Act has to be done by state governments?
A: Yes. The process of submitting applications began in 2008. It will continue till such time as it is completed.
Q: Unfortunately, most of the land being given to industries is fertile agricultural land?
A: My personal view has been that irrigated, cultivable and farm land should not be diverted for these purposes.
Q: There is a rumour that the reason why Jairam Ramesh was removed is because he was blocking big projects. Since you too have expressed your opposition, will this not mean tightrope walking for you?
A: As I have already said, I am not against corporates. If land is being taken away illegally, one has to fight against this.
People have to be made aware at the local level. Tribals are not aware of their rights.
Q: What has gone wrong with states such as Chattisgarh and Jharkhand which are witnessing so much of Maoist violence?
A: They have faced deprivation, neglect abject poverty and lack of development. The state government needs to provide a development package so that the people there are provided with basic facilities, including drinking water and medical aid.
Q: Do you think environmental clearance should be given for these projects?
A: I don’t think environmental clearance should be granted until it complies with FRA. And also till such time as an expert committee gives the go-ahead to ensure there are no adverse effects.
Q: Do you feel the Army should be used to fight Maoists in Maoist affected areas?
A: I personally feel the Army is meant to fight the enemy, not to fight your own people. If and where there is a law and order question, it must be dealt with appropriately. Nor am I in favour of drone attacks. This is not the answer. Development is the answer. This (violence) is closely connected to the apprehension of the tribals that they will be ousted and thrown away due to the acquisition of their land for the purpose of mining and other industrial activities.
Q: Mining ore in Karnataka, including Bellary, has seen major destruction of tribal homes and livelihoods.
A: We need to formulate a national mineral and mining policy which will come up with guidelines regarding industries and other ventures that could be contemplated in these vulnerable areas. We also need to evolve a national mineral policy that bans the export of iron ore. We cannot be allowed to fritter away our resources which are our national wealth.
Q: What is your reaction to the recent handcuffing and chaining of activist Ramesh Aggarwal when he was undergoing treatment in a hospital only because he played the role of a whistleblower in exposing forest land acquisition by a large industrial house?
A: I am not aware of this case, but if it has happened, I strongly condemn it.